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Post by CoralSkywalker on May 2, 2006 13:39:59 GMT
Umm, right.. What do you guys consider as being gothic metal? What typical bands or what kind of sound/lyrics.. Do you call things like industrial metal (eg Deathstars) also gothic? Cause industrial stuff is the kind of music 'real goths' listen to.. Or do you only call bands like Nightwish, Sirenia, Within Temptation etc gothic metal? Or do you rather call those bands symphonic?
This involves also the more general question: what is gothic actually? Cause thats a thing I've been thinking about lately.. In my opinion there are two sorts of "gothic" that are nowadays often mixed > which they shouldn't be!
* There's the more 'metal' way of being goth; means listening to music like Nightwish, etc and the more 'light' types of metal.. Means also wearing long medival-looking robes (for the girls obviously ^^)
* Then next to that there's the 'electro' type of goth, which I called the 'real goths' earlier on.. Has nothing to do with metal imo; these people listen to industrial, cyber and other kinds of electro music and wear leader, black combined with flashy colors etc.. (right I know, poor clothing description..)
That's my opinion about it all anyway.. And I don't want to say anything bad about any type of gothic people.. I got lots of friends of both cases and I like them all! ^^
Just want to know what you think! Especially about the music part..
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Post by Sneltrekker on May 2, 2006 14:37:50 GMT
Nightwish etc I call Symphonic Metal. If gothics wish to adopt the genre as part of their subculture that's fine. But that doesn't make it gothic metal all of a sudden.
There is little music I consider gothic. To be called gothic in music to me, the music needs to be created from the subculture of gothics. Gothics adopted industrial, symphonic, some kinds of metal etc into their subculture, but they didn't create those genres, hence I don't think the title gothic electro, or gothic metal is correct.
Anyway, my opinion on the subculture of gothic-ness. As far as I can see from my gothic friends (and heck ... I been called gothic myself by morons ... quite clearly I'm not), gothic is about individualism mainly. If I look around my goth friends, they wear black and use heavy make-up but that's about the only thing they have in common. In fact, they don't wear ONLY black, they all combine black with cheerful colors to show their uniqueness. Every moron can wear black, but you need a good sense of style to be able to wear black clothes, fluogreen armwarmers, pink tubesocks and still look nice.
Just to say, someone who walks into a shop like Hot Topic for the Americans, or orders entire outfits at Large for Belgians/Dutchies, I don't consider those people gothic. Not to say you can't buy anything at all in those shops. But IMHO you can't be gothic unless you're individualistic. Which means you at least learn to combine clothes yourself instead of going: Ooooh, in the shop window the puppet wore that shirt with that tie and that skirt and those gloves, so I'll just buy the entire outfit and wear it the exact same way. If you do that you're no better than that puppet: a tool being used by capitalism to get a foothold on alternative culture.
If you run around the streets hopping up and down "Look at me, look at me, I'm a goth, I drink blood and I cut my wrists twice a week to get attention" ... then you're NOT gothic. Ok, that was a bit exaggerated, but you get the idea.
In case it wasn't clear, I love the gothic subculture in itself. But like with any group of people, there will always be poseurs that ruin it. (Marilyn Manson *violent cough*)
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Post by Ashildr on May 2, 2006 17:07:50 GMT
I don't believe in 'gothic' metal. It's just a name some ppl invented, and it doesn't excist for me. Nightwish, Within Temptation, they all make nice music, but I call it sympho, or female fronted metal. I really like "goth's" and their culture, but I just don't like the word 'gothic'. Just 'cause if you say 'gothic', everybody thinks of evil, satanic, strange ppl with lots of black makeup etc. And that's what posers make from 'gothic'...
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jamahara
Junior Member
Your Socks, Please.
Posts: 73
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Post by jamahara on May 2, 2006 17:55:05 GMT
I think any Metal incorporating decadent themes is Goth, since Goths seem to be more extravagant, and have more developed views on mortality and all that.
And hopefully the image of Goth's can be cleaned up now, to what it really is, since Emo's are all taking the attention of the suicidal confused teenager.
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Post by Silhouette on May 6, 2006 22:30:42 GMT
I don't think "female fronted metal" should be considered a tag at all. I mean, yeah, the bands are female fronted, so? That doesn't really tell You anything about the style of the band. And are there any bands called "male fronted metal"? Of course not, they doesn't sound the same either!
Symphonic metal is something that can be found in any metal genre. There are black metal bands (Dimmu Borgir), heavy metal bands (Therion), progressive metal bands (Adagio, Symphony X) and so on, all of them using lots of symphonic elements in their music.
So what about the gothic then?
I wont try to explain what I think is gothic right now, I'm way too tired for that.
But most bands You call gothic, like After Forever and Nightwish (which are not gothic at all), could easily fit into another genre. After Forever, for example, I would consider their later to albums heavy metal with a symphonic and operatic touch.
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Post by CoralSkywalker on May 8, 2006 14:03:38 GMT
ISo what about the gothic then? I wont try to explain what I think is gothic right now, I'm way too tired for that. ;D How honest! ^^ Umm, we all seem to have a real different view on things right? Lovely..  |
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Post by Silhouette on May 8, 2006 14:16:30 GMT
I try be honest in every situation, it's hard, but I think it's possible.  |
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Post by Angellore on May 9, 2006 1:36:05 GMT
I love Wikipedia : Gothic metal is sometimes considered a loose genre in the way it sounds because the genre is defined by its composition of the music and its aesthetics, leaving individual bands to provide different interpretations. It also makes unique use of dual vocalists, keyboards and acoustic guitars, making it distinctive in comparison to other metal genres. Keyboards play a major role in gothic metal, often replacing the second guitarist in bands and taking on the role of either lead or rhythm. The keyboards are often used to imitate a variety of instruments, most often string and wind instruments. Keyboards tend to support the bass in setting the atmosphere and mood of songs. The atmosphere is commonly tailored to fit the song; warm and energetic, empty and enclosing. The atmosphere rarely follows the deep morbidity of doom metal unlike its origin/offspring, doom-death/gothic-doom, or the upbeat nature of its sister genre, symphonic metal. Lyrically, gothic metal is centered around romances and fantasy tales that end in tragedy for one or more parties involved. The setting for the lyrics are most often in the New Age or the Dark Ages, but can also be in Victorian, Edwardian, Roman, or modern eras. The romantic- and fantasy-themed lyrics often used in gothic metal cover many broad subjects and are intended as being themes and guides to the lyricist, rather than a complete prerequisite of the genre. Gothic Metal bands typically do not write their albums in the form of separate songs; they rather write concept albums in the form of books. This is so that each song acts as a part, or, chapter, inspiring people to listen to the whole album in order to hear the story, instead of just certain songs. Penumbra's Seclusion and Silentium's Sufferion - Hamartia of Prudence are two gothic metal albums that feature this style of lyrics. Gothic metal bands normally have two vocalists, (also known as "Beauty and the Beast" vocals). One vocalist is typically male and uses vocals akin to black or death metal. The other vocalist is usually female, and often uses soprano vocals, or harmonic singing. Sometimes bands will use other forms of vocals included with the two prior vocalists, including (but not limited to) female death/black vocals, Gregorian chanting and male singing, but this tends to be limited to backing vocals and their use within the song. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_metal |
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Post by CoralSkywalker on May 9, 2006 13:45:09 GMT
Great! ;D Again something different, but almost the style I always saw as gothic metal actually.. And they suggest bands like Sirenia, Tristania, Trail of Tears.. Yeah, that was sort of my idea too They don't seem to talk about the 'industrial'-wing here though.. Anyway, not what I considered as being goth metal at the first place.. Hey I'm totally Wiki! (Ow man, my English sucks again today! ^^) |
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Post by Silhouette on May 26, 2006 14:24:10 GMT
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Post by Angellore on May 27, 2006 1:10:17 GMT
It dosent work for now  .I'll check it later  |
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Post by forgottenlegend on May 27, 2006 11:53:34 GMT
Well, basically i can't add anything more to that wiki-description, it just perfectly resembles what i tought on the matter... |
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Post by Silhouette on May 28, 2006 11:52:28 GMT
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Post by forgottenlegend on May 28, 2006 15:30:44 GMT
you're right, he did |
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Post by Silhouette on May 28, 2006 15:50:08 GMT
Only problem is that You have to listen to Sisters of Mercy or Field of the Nephilim to be able to define what's gothic. I guess I'll have to go get all albums by those bands later. |
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Post by Angellore on May 28, 2006 20:27:35 GMT
Damn, the link dosen't work for me at all .I'll try tomorrow. |
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Post by Silhouette on May 29, 2006 7:50:19 GMT
That's strange, doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it to me... Try entering www.metalstorm.ee, scroll down to the ARTICLES / CONCERT REVIEWS headline and click the article Defining Gothic Metal: The Truth And Lies Of The Scene. |
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Post by CoralSkywalker on May 29, 2006 8:09:38 GMT
Only problem is that You have to listen to Sisters of Mercy or Field of the Nephilim to be able to define what's gothic. Dunno about FotN, but you should really check out Sister of Mercy! ^^ They're great.. Still I don't actually see the link with bands like Tristania, Sirenia etc.. with the 'gothic scene of the 80ies'.. I see a link with Paradise Lost and this gothic scene for example.. and from those I can see a link to the bands I mentioned earlier.. but that link seems pretty far away for me personally.. What would this guy call bands like WT, After Forever etc? Symphonic? Probably.. and they probably are.. Oh man, it's difficult isn't it? ^^ I still tagged those bands 'gothic metal' at last.fm ^^ |
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Post by Silhouette on May 29, 2006 14:55:36 GMT
I don't think they really need a tag... Why not just 'metal'? That's metal enough for me, anyway.
It's easy to just describe the music as symphonic, melodic, atmospheric, dark, melancholic or whatever anyway.
Well, if the link is too obvious to the gothic/darkwave, it wouldn't be gothic metal, but mostly just gothic. If You listen to the compositions and arrangements, there is clearly a connection to Tristania and the other Norweigan bands, just as he said.
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Post by CoralSkywalker on May 30, 2006 7:33:33 GMT
Umm yeah.. But it's just, probably personally but I see other people having this idea too: I consider something (anything) "gothic" when it reminds me not of the 80ies but of the nineteenth or whatever century.. You know, the gothic novels of eg Poe, Shelley etc.. Reminds me of ruins of old churches, long dresses indeed and that kind of stuff.. that kind of atmosphere..
That's the things I just naturally associate with gothic.. And music by both bands like Tristania AND like WT, is in this style if you consider both lyrics and sound.
Hope you get what I mean ^^
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.I'll check it later 
